How to Scale Your PT Business Online — with Miles

Hello everybody. Hope you're all doing well. Welcome back to PT Launch Lab. So today I'm in with Miles and we're going to be going over his journey in the fitness business, how he built up all of his chain gyms, his advice and experience in the PT game. So this is going to be a good one.

This is going to be a good listen. So make sure you like and subscribe. [Music] So, hello Miles. Nice to meet you. Welcome. >> And you, too. Good to be here.

Excited to chat all things fitness and old time and and future stuff. >> I know. Absolutely. I mean, we reached out to you because obviously your big chain of gyms. It's obviously really impressive. So, I'd love to know specifically your history, like how did you get into it?

What's your background in all this? What's your what's your what's your caliber? Um well typ typical I think most lads story sporty loved the gym and then just wanted to always had a dream to run a gym and you know find the sky owner gym one day and you know went to gyms as a teenager then decided to go do my fitness qualls with focus training in Bolton >> they're still around as well >> Bolton Health Studios which I think's been demolished now >> so that was I think 1996 so just coming up to I think 30 years was almost business. >> Started with a a small independent just used to work for free cuz I wanted free membership cuz as a 16 year old that's all I wanted. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Um and then did my A levels you know PE biology went to uni did my degree kept working for gyms throughout that time and when I left uni I gave up some time to be a floor walker at Fitness First. >> Right. Okay. >> That shows takes you back a bit. >> Yeah.

Fitness first. And then um I ended up being a sales manager for them and that went pretty well. Did won a regional award best salesperson while I was there and then ended up working for JJV Sports if you remember >> JJB. Yeah. Wow. >> JJB Gyms.

So that's going back to the early 2000s. >> What progressed through assistant manager, general manager, cluster manager, ended up running the Scotland estate for them. >> Wow. Yeah. um lived in Glasgow and then worked for Greens, David Lloyds. So I went through >> wow >> pretty much most of the industry and then thought it's now or never. >> You know I'd done like a 15 year apprenticeship running clubs, setting up clubs and thought I've got to do it and sort of I went all in, sold my house. >> Wow. Yeah. Um yeah, just went all in and that's when MP Fit was born which was I think 2010 2011 started off uh we went up against the most popular DW at the time in the country which was Bristol >> and was told I was crazy to open the gym down the road from them and I thought well I back myself at the time I was heavily into you know strength training um Westside methods def Franco co training. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> What I classed as real world functional athletic development training >> and I thought there's no one doing it. >> Mhm. >> So opened up and it took off, >> you know, it took off. There were a lot of mistakes along the way, bought some of the wrong equipment, you know, tried to please everyone and I realized being a people pleaser, sometimes you please no one. >> Yeah. There's no there's no game for that anymore. No, you you got to say who you are and who you're not >> because sometimes otherwise you're just vanilla and you're in the middle. >> Yeah. >> And MP fit was unashamedly this is what we do. People were saying at the time what in that club why don't you put TVs up?

No. Are you going to put this here? You going to put a jacuzzi in? No. >> No. >> We're here to get your results. That's what we do.

And people traveled. >> Yeah. >> You know you back in the day your membership traveled three to five mile. >> Yeah. We had members traveling 7 9 12 miles to train there. >> Okay. Yeah. >> We extended the site, got the downstairs, >> which it has now, >> and then eventually opened up a second site and um it did really well and I I exited and sold in 2017. >> Wow. So obviously when you started that, I like that you went back to the functional strength aspects because it's like you say now a lot of these leisure type gyms, let's call them leisure, they've all turned into a spa of some sort. You know, they've got more sauners than they have gym equipment.

They've got the higher price memberships that includes a massage as well. Yeah. And you'll find a lot of the members, no matter what age category they're in, like, oh, I'm going to go and do a bit of sauna today. I'm going to do this rather than the old method of I'm going to go to the gym, I'm going to work hard and I'm going to go home. Cuz I think the nature of a gym's really changed now.

And I think with the commercial side that's come into it. A lot of you don't have to be associated like you can be a disassociated person. You can walk in, you don't have to know people's names. You can do whatever you need to do whether that's you know just going in the sauna, going in the pool, whatever, and then go home. There's no real comm community aspect about it. >> I think that's been my major criticism of the fitness industry over the last 30 years, which is, you know, I've always thought the gym should be the third place. >> Yeah. >> You got home, you got work in the gym. >> Mh. >> You know, we have a mental health crisis because people feel alone.

They feel isolated. And I've always had a massive passion in and some of the mentors I had at the start were big on this. Know your members names, eye contact, chat to people, >> you know, they should be said hello to when they walk in the facility. >> Yeah. >> Goodbye when they leave. Ask them how the training's going. These are the basics. >> Yeah. >> And every facility should be doing that.

And I know that some of the budget models have got a different model >> and I know it's profitable and I and that suits a certain niche in the marketplace. >> It does. But what I do think as well, as much as people criticize the budget gyms, what I think it does, it's a bit of a gateway into fitness for some people >> because it's low cost, but you also realize with low cost you get low service. >> Yeah. >> No help, no support. >> And I think people forget one of the biggest things it's always been in sales just in general is people buy from people. Yeah, >> you know the product the product could be naff it could be a really basic product but people work with people who they like and I think that matters for PTS as well because >> it doesn't matter because everyone's pretty much promoting the same thing and doesn't matter you might be have a little bit more knowledge in one area than some others but essentially we're all promote promoting health and fitness and there's thousands upon thousands of different gyms independent gyms different types of gyms and you tend to drift towards the one that speaks speaks to you the most and it's usually the people inside it. >> 100%. I think people want to think that's me. >> That's a bit of me. >> Either that PT, that coach, that gym that solves the problem, the unique problem I have. >> And a lot of the time people are just vanilla. >> Yeah. >> They're trying to appeal to everybody, but then appeal to no one. And I think as well when when somebody's looking to solve a problem, be it get fitter, relieve stress, get stronger, drop body fat, whatever their goal is, you whether it's a coach, a gym, you want to be the logical, ethical, and emotional solution to that problem. >> Yeah.

Yeah. And I do you think that's why like high rocks gyms and CrossFit gyms have got so popular because they're very community based now? I think I think CrossFit, you know, people talk a lot about what they've done wrong over the years and all the the PR catastrophes and stuff, but I think CrossFit did something very, very well, which was the community side. They got people together, a common goal, and people fought for that community >> and they did that exceptionally well and and >> that then has been taken on the good parts of it, I think, by Hierrox. >> Yeah. >> And Hierrox has obviously took off and gone to a different stratosphere. Yeah, because I think they've made high rocks for everybody, aren't they?

Because like we we talk about functional fitness. I love everything about functional fitness. It's a skill. You learn these skills and they adapt to real world applications and it's tough. And I think with High Rocks, there's something for everybody.

It's not a particularly skillful aspect. It's accessible. >> Yeah. And it opens up the doors to other people. And I think that's why it's important. I think that's why it's welcomed as well.

And I think that's sometimes where commercial gyms really miss out on that fact because you could put a thousand different machines that work a thousand different body parts and there but they don't take anything home with them that they can practically use outside of that. >> I I think where where gyms go wrong largely is they only think about what happens in the four walls. >> So do they do community hikes? Do they get out with their members? Do they communicate to the members and give them value? Do you give them programs outside? Is the support how do you be accessible to your member when they're not in the gym? >> And I think that's the big challenge for gyms now >> because you've got to think beyond the four walls.

Libraries, education, nutrition, coaching, social events. There's so many things that gyms could and maybe should be doing to separate themselves from the big box budget gym down the road that has loads of equipment. >> Yeah. You know, >> how can you differentiate yourself and provide the level of service and support >> which your budget gyms won't do and can't do because they haven't they don't have the manpower? >> So, what mistakes did you make in the early days especially bring it up? >> Oh, there's been a few. There's been a few. So, I think I think I had a very clear vision of what I wanted to be, >> but I sometimes let outside influences say that won't work. >> And I I'd kind of done my research, >> listen to the noise a bit. >> Yeah.

I listened to the noise and sometimes I could have been bolder. I could have been, no, this is what we're doing and it'll work and I'm prepared to fall on my sword if it doesn't. >> And I should have backed myself. So certain times I went a bit mainstream where I should have just gone kind of all in on this is what we're doing. >> Do you think that's where some people struggle now because they just sort of join the pack a bit and they try and do what everyone else is doing? >> It's fear. >> Yeah. >> Everything comes back to fear. So PTs, coaches, gyms, I don't put that social media post out because what if somebody comments negatively? >> Yeah. >> What if somebody says a negative comment? But they're probably never going to be your ideal client.

M >> they're never going to be your customer. So if you speak unap unapologetically and authentically you >> and what you stand for, >> the people who resonate with that will be your potential clients. >> So the ones that don't like it, well, they were never going to be a good fit anyway. >> So sometimes I think being from the start, doing your research, getting very clear, having a mastermind of people who know more than you, >> pick their brains, pay for knowledge, to accelerate your journey and then back yourself and be bold. >> Do you think that's why mentors are important? >> 100%. I still have them now. Yeah. I mentor gyms now as well as owning gyms and people who come to me who are starting out who have hit roadblocks who have hit a stumbling block >> you know I can give them my 30 years of knowledge and maybe you should do this try this let's look at your model let's look at what you're doing and we we tweak and refine things >> because they could spend five years potentially go out of business >> or just pay for somebody who's been there before >> that's the power of mentors >> and I know you work with?

Obviously, you work on scaling fitness businesses. >> Y >> um >> do you find it sometimes there's some people out there it's difficult to work with because they're not willing to accept the advice? Like sometimes they don't accept when their thing's not working. >> 100%. That's the most common problem is people get a little bit blinkered and that the ego gets in the way. >> You know, it's a case I >> imagine Jim Jim shocking shocking because everything. You look at the P&L, you look at the financial statements, you look at the membership, you look at the retention, you point out every single metric that their business is in trouble and heading one way, which is into financial obscurity and it's going to close. >> But sometimes you can say, right, okay, what do you think to this? What do you think?

And they'll go, oh yeah, that would work. but they're still hanging on to the broken model or the system that isn't just clearly isn't working and you look at the bank statements and you can see they're losing money every month >> but they still sometimes hang on to ego. >> Yeah, we did that. I think I think everybody does that though because you get stuck because when you first start something naturally the beginning part is the most successful in it and all those little factors and variables do work for a time and then you've got to sort of figure out well how can we modify this to constantly change with times because every year something changes every year there's a new type of mythology there's a new type of approach there's a new type of system that you want to use but you get used to it well this worked So why can't we just keep doing this? >> I think new levels new devils. >> And what you >> Yeah. >> And what you find is is what got you to your first 20 clients >> won't get you to 50 or 100. >> And in gyms, the methods you've used to get to 200 members won't get you to 2,000. >> Mhm. >> So a saying a mentor said to me recently was, you know, sometimes you've got to leave good behind to be great. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Because good methods won't get you great. will keep you good. >> So sometimes you get in that zone of being comfortable or ticking over >> but you know you got to change and pivot your mindset, your actions, your beliefs, your systems to go to another financial level or member level or what whatever it may be whether it's you know a coaching clients level >> you know your systems won't sustain the next level. >> Mhm. and your mindset won't because often your mindset and your beliefs are the bottleneck in your own business. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

How do you manage the expectation then? Because I think we all have an expectation in our brain of what we're supposed to earn from doing specific thing and then the reality kicks in. How do you match the expectation of what you think you should be doing to where you're actually at? Because I think you can get lost in the the cataclysm. I think social media did it as well.

You see people out there, they might be doing the same business. You know, people who get into PTS, you see people driving Lambos and Bugattis in Dubai and they're thinking, "How did they do that?" Often rented for a day. >> Yeah. >> Often. And I know some of these people, so I know that it's smoking mirrors. So that that does sway people's mindset. I think everything it's based on what >> I should be here or I should be there. >> Based on what what are you what actions are you doing to achieve that? >> Yeah. you know, so I I I've got a big thing which is data over emotions. >> So you should always be looking at the data because when I speak to people, be it somebody who's in a gym or a coach and they say, "Oh, everyone's joining." I went, "Everyone." >> That's a broad >> How how many? >> Yeah. >> What was your target versus, >> you know, are you on are you on track? the goals you set, you should always weekly reflect and daily sometimes reflect on are you on the the right trajectory or not >> because people say and and then everyone because the same halo or pitchfork. >> Yeah. >> Everyone's joining, everything's rosy, everything's miserable. >> Everyone's leaving and you say to them, well, you're saying everyone's leaving.

Show me the data. >> You've got 3% churn, 4%, 8%, 10% churn. What is it? And is that seasonally? Look at last year. In October last year, did you have a bad month?

Yeah. But we had a great September. We had a great August. Sometimes people look at things without context. >> Yeah. It's like panic mode.

It >> Yeah. You know that they have this zigzag approach. Oh my god, I'll run there then I'll run back and I'll run back. And have a plan. >> Mhm. >> Look at your plan every week. Look at your daily actions and am I moving and doing the work towards?

So people, I can give them a social media 90-day plan and a strategy based on the type of member they're after, the type of client they're after. I can say, "Here's what you need to do every day." And it's one day is a testimonial, one day might be some education, and have you done the work? Uh, well, I don't have time. And I say, "Well, not having time is the adult excuse of the dog get my homework." >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, and I say, "Show me your Google calendar." And it's the funny thing is is everybody that has no time >> doesn't have a calendar schedule. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, it's like when you speak to your clients and it and you know say did you hit these points in your program like well no cuz the kids got up early and all of this and you end up just building this facade where the world's constantly against you. Whereas you you've got a choice. We all have choices and it's you either choose to do sometimes the hard thing which is the thing you need to do >> or you choose the comfortable option. >> Yeah. >> And we know that in in fitness we know that that often people choose the the comfortable side. >> Yeah. >> And I suppose so in your area as well you can really figure out the pros and cons of the fitness business these days.

So obviously there's a lot of pros. I think people miss on the cons. Um, what would you say are some pros and cons today of being in the fitness industry? Whether you're a coach, a gym owner, what aspects are the pros and the cons? >> The I think the pros are massive. Just I mean looking at data on um gym memberships. >> There's still only 16% of the UK population have a gym membership. >> So it's 84% of people potentially can be converted to doing regular exercise in a gym, which will make them fit stronger.

Even if they don't follow the best program, they'll still see some results. >> Yeah. Yeah. So it will reduce obesity and a plethora of other problems. So there's massive upside potential for pts and coaches. I think again, you know, with people being in front of screens longer than ever, being less active than ever, >> I think there's a massive opportunity to get people fitter, stronger, healthier, and as a result affect their mindset >> and make them feel more connected. >> So the personal touch as a coach, I think, is massive.

And I controversially on on a on another conversation I had last week, I said this. I think there'll be a massive swing back to actual in-person personal training. >> Yeah. Well, see, Ryan keeps saying the exact same thing. And >> I think the idea of being online coach is so intoxicating because I think when people think of freedom, >> Yeah. >> people think of freedom, you can work from anywhere in the world. You can do this, you can do that.

That sounds like a dream. But what we always teach is if you haven't been on a gym floor talking to people and knowing how to build a connection, you're going to struggle very much online because you know by facing somebody and target someone and working through the problems. A lot of the time it's got nothing to do with mechanics of exercise and the complications of diet. It's mainly about emotional connection. They need to know that they're in the same boat as everybody else started. >> Yeah. >> And you transfer that online. and it's a transaction of money and you give them a program, you give them a diet protocol and then they don't follow it and then you just consider that person just not be capable. >> Well, I'll quickly go to the negatives of the fitness industry and what I see is if you can't do it, coach it. >> So, people who've never done mastery and the 10,000 hours on the gym floor. >> Yeah. >> They've never done the leg work.

If you've not worked with clients over a long enough period, watching everything, knowing how people react to coaching, knowing how to actually physically coach and exercise, tempos, postures, >> looking at people's body language when they walk on the gym floor to see are they ready for this workout today? Do they look beat up? >> You'll look at the body language and you think, have they slept well? Mhm. >> Because critically a good coach will suddenly although scrap that session planned and you'll reduce the intensity, the volume and everything for that client because they've walked in and they haven't slept, the stress they work, they were working away. >> And an online coach, if they've never done all that 10,000 hours in the gym, you can't effectively online like it's like being a virgin sex therapist. If you have not done the hard yards Yeah. And I see coaches, and I don't I don't I don't like throwing people under the bus.

I've seen coaches who've failed on the gym floor >> because they wouldn't go and speak to people, build relationships, they've had >> and you think that's like the most like that's the most important >> clue is in the title person training >> and you then see these people who are >> an online coach and >> you've never even been an in-person coach. >> Yeah. Yeah. So now you're copying and pasting spreadsheets and sending it to people charging them 200 quid a month. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And that is the bit of the fitness industry and that's why I almost hope personal training comes back in again. >> Yeah. >> Because you can't hide. >> Yeah. >> Whereas behind a laptop you can nick other people's work, copy and paste it. And I do know that goes on because I know >> people who are doing it and selling other people's work >> to clients. >> I find it appalling. >> Yeah.

And you know what? Even to a degree, if the workouts aren't your own, it's still negative in a way, but if you were a good coach with someone else's workout, you realize, like you just said, it's not about the workout. It's about building the capacity in a human being to be able to mix training, family life, and realizing that can be a catalyst to improve all the other aspects outside >> and health and wellness. I mean you can take whatever form of training you want. You could functional strength, you can do running, you can do swimming, boxing, whatever form of training you take on.

You got to know that it has a knock on effect to the rest of your life and usually in a positive manner. And it's like you say with these online coaches, like we always hit this home because there's nothing I hate more than somebody who's never had any personal connection with people and knowing how someone's going to feel about it cuz you get that nerve-wracking feeling. You get that, you know, that confidence, that imposttor syndrome where you don't think you're going to be able to do it. How is how are you going to let someone know that that's okay and that you're going to help them? Because essentially, that's what personal training is.

You're just there to help. You're going to spend half your time being a therapist. You're going to spend >> sometimes more than half the time. >> Yeah. And you're going to spend half your time making sure that they're you can help them build emotionally as well as physically because if you can get your mind right, your body is just a byproduct. And uh it's it's a weird one because when we started doing the personal training courses, initially we just started with the courses and we thought that was important.

But then we know as personal trainers the certificate is just a gateway and it's it's like getting your driver's license. You spend all that time with instructor, you get your license, doesn't mean you can drive. It means that you have the legal qualification to say that you're allowed to be on the road. Doesn't mean that you can do it. >> Yes. >> And then when you get your certificate, it's about going out on the gym floor and meeting people and understanding people. And usually I always find the best personal trainers had a personal trainer themselves and been through a journey. >> 100%.

I mean, I've always invested in mentors and coaches. >> I've traveled to Charles Polloquin seminars, Paul Czech seminars, John Barard who I've spent 30 years going to seminars, learning from people smarter than me >> because if you which I think again in the personal training industry, it's quite sad. >> People don't go and they get qualifications and they're not always upskilling. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, who's better than me in that field? Are they doing a course in London this year? Right, I'll go and I'll do it three days there.

I'll go and do that in Manchester. And people and trainers who won't invest in their own education and then surprised that they can't put the prices up every year >> because they're not leveling up their skill set. >> Mh. >> If you can get better results and deliver more, you can charge more. >> Mhm. >> But if you always stay on the same skill set level, don't expect your income level to keep rising. >> Yeah. I see that and I've seen that for years. >> 100%. Yeah. And yeah, this is why the industry can be difficult sometimes because I think people can't connect the dots with what's important in terms of Yes, it's important getting transformations.

It looks great when you put that post on and someone's gone from 30% body fat down to, you know, below 15. It looks fantastic, but do they are they mentally better? Are they going to sustain that? because you can get someone from A to B very fast in a short amount of time. >> It's what they do after their time with you. You know, it's it is like working with someone again with the driving instructor. You want to get someone to a place where they're confident >> and then are they going to maintain that and be better?

Because as a PT, you can have a a client for years, but a lot of clients will work with you maybe up to a year >> and when they go away, are they going to maintain what you've taught them? Have they got sustainable knowledge to be able to go away and go, I know what I'm doing now and I can crack on or have they left with nothing and you've just put them through workouts and they've got no mental stability to carry that on. >> Yeah, I think one you're building confidence in then that the gym is a place for them as a train. >> So without you, they can then carry that habit on. >> Two, it's it's the why. M >> if you're telling somebody to do certain exercises certain volume, eat a certain way, some grams of protein, why is that? >> You know, if if if you educate them on why they're doing things, often adherence goes up. >> And if they if they understand the why and they keep understanding the why as you're coaching them on a journey, they hopefully leave with enough like you said to it's like the the old analogy, isn't it? You know, teach a man how to fish versus giving him a fish. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't want to butcher the analogy, but it's that kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> You teach them how to train and and the rationale and the logic behind it. >> When you've built their confidence up and they're at a level, sometimes you can go right, >> you're kind of good on your own now. >> You can maybe do distance. That's when the online stuff comes in. >> You know they know how to train because you've coached them. Then you can go on and do their programming and their nutrition for them.

Mhm. >> So, I think I think the industry there's we're at this point of, you know, online's best or in person's best. I think there is it's using knowing when to use a hammer and knowing when to use a screwdriver. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Not one not one thing works for everything. >> Yeah.

Yeah. No. 100%. How do you profile? So, obviously you employ personal trainers in the gym. >> Yeah. >> How do you profile it? Because I'm sure it's more than a CV.

What do you look for? Someone representing your brand in your gym? I like people, believe it or not, I like people to be already members at the gym >> because, you know, they they're training your gym. They like the product. They're into fitness. >> So, when they get their qualifications, they aren't somebody who's hopefully or just fancy being a PT.

I've been a I've worked in a warehouse yesterday and I fancy being PT. I like somebody who's into fitness. >> Usually, had a PT themselves. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and then does a course and wants to be obese because they they've been helped and they want to help others. >> So they they want to help. >> I like that. And as well skill set I don't worry about so much because that can be taught. >> Yeah. >> The dying art of being able to speak to people. >> Yeah.

Yeah. >> And you know when I when I started in industry it was like okay go and speak to 10 people find out the names. find out why they're here and what's the one pain point they struggle with. M >> 20 30 years ago that's how we were taught >> and that has been lost I think in the industry whereas you know people now rely on social media I think it too much >> rather than walking up to people on a gym floor how's it going how's your training >> exactly >> is there anything you're struggling with or what's the one thing if I could solve for you what would that be >> yeah solving problems yeah >> you know I you because usually one people there's people there's a one lever that usually is a big lever that unlocks a a lot of things. >> Mhm. >> It can be snacking, it can be the nutrition, meal prep, it can be anything. >> Yeah. >> But as a coach, if you can solve that one thing, the ripple effect is massive. >> Yeah. And and I always lay it back because I I was a mechanic many moons ago. And people always ring you. So, as a specialist in that area, people are going to ring you with a problem that needs to fix. >> Yeah. >> And you're going to help them to fix that problem.

And I think PT coaching works the exact same way. the audience that you're going to build, the clientele you're going to build, they're going to have a problem. Okay? It could be your niche area could be helping busy moms and dads over 30 optimize and, you know, find a little bit of balance. Okay? That's your problem that you're say is fixed.

It doesn't have to be just that problem, but these problems that you got to fix, it might be a few, it might be a lot, but you're in the job of getting to know people and getting to know what the actual problems are. And it's like the three W, isn't it? So, when you're doing a consultation with a client, you're like, "What what do you want to achieve? I want to lose weight. Why do you want to lose weight?" Well, I had a dress that I tried to fit in that I had from many moons ago and it doesn't fit anymore.

Why do you want to fit in that dress? Oh, cuz at that point, I felt really confident and I was in a new relationship. I felt good. Okay, so you're wanting to get that spark back going. You're looking to revitalize.

You're looking to feel good. Okay, that's a good goal to go. And then you can build that accountability when they get into the depths of the training and they'll always hit a point where they plummet a little bit, maybe the scale weight's not moving as much, maybe the performance in the gym slowed down a little bit. Like remember your goal. It's all part of the process.

Everyone goes through it. And then I think you can transfer that over to building a business as well because it will hit a stalemate at some point and then you're like, "Oh, it's not working." You know, I'm going to go back into employment. I'm going to, you know, I'm going to find a way out. Well, remember why you're doing it in the first place. >> Yeah. >> And remember the why and remember the real reason why I do it because think everybody that comes into this. The one thing that people we've had conversations with potential learners and they always ask for guarantees.

So we put you can earn up to five grand a month if you want to >> and more. >> Yeah. >> And more. >> And they'll go how can I guarantee that you earn five five grand? I'm not making guarantees. That's not the point. You know, you can buy a Tony Robinson book that tells you how to be a millionaire. And each page has all that information on there.

Every person that buys that book is not going to be a millionaire. >> Yeah. Because they don't often do the work. >> Yeah. >> And apply consistently as you know with clients. It's, >> you know, and I call it the valley of despair. >> So, everybody who's starting a business, starting a weight loss journey, starting a gym journey, motivation lights the touch paper, the rocket ship sets off. M >> as we know with motivation like a muscle tires and fades. >> Yeah. >> You go down into the valley of despair. How is it worth it? >> Or it's hard work. >> But if you can just get the discipline and the rocket ship going again and get them back on track. >> Yeah. >> They usually stay the course and see the benefits. >> Yeah. >> But you've got to get them doing the work long enough to see the benefits.

And I'm sure with the amount of people that you've worked with, sometimes you just want to give them a bash on the head and say, "Look, get over yourself." This is part of it. >> Having tough conversations with people and and being a blunt Yorkman like like we both are, you know, you sometimes have to just have a an affectionately themed difficult conversation. >> Yeah. >> Where you say, "Right, okay. I'm going to give you it straight now. >> You want to get to there. We've agreed a course of action of these things and you're not doing it. Do you want to get there? >> Mhm. >> And that can be with a client to weight loss, strength, anything. >> We've agreed, can you do this? Yes.

Have you got the time for this? Yes. Have you got the motivation for it? Yes. Have you got the this?

You can get all the yeses in the world to the agreed plan of action. >> But still, when they're not in your present company, they have to do the work. >> And that's where you have, you know, the value of despair. Yeah. >> Self motivation fades. Oh, should I carry on? But you've got to, like you said, bring them back to the north star. >> What do we want? Where do we want to go?

What does it look like? What does it feel? >> How's it going to make a difference in my life when I get there? >> Y >> reconnect them to that. >> And hopefully we get them back onto the track and we get them moving forward again. >> I think the same people that want guarantees, it always drives me nuts. is the same people that probably buys a lottery ticket every week. You know, they're buying it like they've already won it and they're they're buying it every week with the notion that they might get it. And it's that transfers to look, you starting something unless you see it through, you don't know if it's going to work. And I think those initial steps that you take where you get those small successes to the start, it can build that false sense of right, I'm on the right track.

I'm doing good. I'm beating 99% of my competition, 99% of my potential. And then, like you say, when it gets hard, they usually revert back to their old mindset of the world's against me. It's the victim mindset. I sometimes find that people want to feel like they can't achieve something because this world order is telling them that they can't.

And you've got to push past that because no one's ever been successful, has got to that first roadblock, and give up at the first one. >> Yeah. you know, business, being a coach, business owner, fitness business owner, gym owner, you are going to you're going to have massive hurdles. >> You're going to have things come out of the blue that hit you, blind inside you. >> You're going to have all these things happen, but you have to just dust yourself off, >> pick yourself up, >> again, where am I heading? What am I doing? >> What do I need to do to get there? you know, and do the work. You know, the amount of times that I've seen people with potential as a coach >> who've not achieved it >> and dropped out of the industry because the daily basics they they're not willing to do. >> Yeah. Just run through the run through the rituals and hit those marks every day. >> Yeah. And sometimes a little bit of success and they stop doing the basics as well. >> Yeah.

They forget. >> That's the key thing. Oh, you know, I've got to 20 clients now, >> and suddenly all the social media that we're doing every day, >> the reaching out to people, speaking to 10 people a day, >> you know, how can I help? >> Mhm. >> Just how can I help, Tony? How can I help you? >> Mhm. >> If you don't, if that got you to 20 clients, you get to 20 and you stop doing all that. >> Well, everyone, as you know, gets a churn. >> Yeah. >> People move away. People for illness and all sorts of reasons will stop. So you're suddenly back at 15, then you're back at 10, and you're back at square one because you've stopped doing the work that got you the clients. >> Yeah. >> So in the background, you have to have systems or yourself, one or the other, that gets you the lead flow, which gets you future clients, and you can build up a waiting list if you need to. >> Mhm. >> But people stop doing the stuff that got them the clients. >> So that's like the 8020 rule, isn't it?

So your 80% is all your admin, keeping stuff running, keeping stuff alive, and that 20% is the bit that scales, isn't it? That's the outreach. That's the >> iceberg. >> Yeah. >> You know, you've got all this under under the water that people don't see, which is >> and again, you can systematize a lot of this. You know, there's lots of ways of doing it so you can leverage time, >> but you've got 80% of systems that make sure that stays above the water and looks glossy and shiny and successful all the rest of it. There's a lot of work goes on behind the scenes. >> So, if you could go back to, you know, the prime self before you started all this with your advice for now, you can go back and have a conversation.

Is there anything that you could probably drop as a hint of knowledge to them? This is probably translates to those watching now who might want to aspire to go into the fitness industry. What would be some really key points to understand before taking on this sort of endeavor? >> One, be coachable. So again, like we said, be a sponge at the start. You've got to look at everybody who's smarter than you and try and absorb, pay for, you know, I've took people out for meals before to pick the brain.

He used to call it a brain picking fee. >> You know, if I' I'd reach out to people who I knew were doing far better than I were. >> And I'd say, you know, oh, do you want to go out for a meal? Your choice. I'm paying. >> And I just sit and just ask them questions. >> I go on weekend courses, mentorships. I would do everything I could to try and get the facts in your head, >> but then you've got to have the courage and be bold to then put it into place. >> Yeah. and all the naysayers who people like us don't do that. People in this town don't make money. >> Yeah. >> People in our family are not self-employed.

You're always going to have that weight of people and dragging you down. >> Yeah. >> So, you've got to it's all right acquiring the knowledge, >> but then you've got to be able to put it into action. So I would say having somebody who mentors and holds your hand until you have a business because setting up a business is full of minefields and you don't know them until you step on one. >> Mhm. >> And somebody who's been there and stepped on all those minefields and made the mistakes can stop you making those mistakes. Save you time, save you a lot of money. >> Yeah. >> And a lot of heartache. >> Yeah. So I would say, you know, get the knowledge and just be a sponge and then get somebody who can hold your hand and walk you through the journey. >> Yeah, it's Yeah, I love that. I do cuz I think people get really tied up in the now as well.

Um I've had to learn over ever since having my first child of allowing to be present as well because we can live in the future way too much. And even if that's in the success mindset of I'm going to be here. I can't wait to get there. This is the only time I can be happy. And I think having that mentor and having those people and having all that information around you lets you know that these are stages to hit.

These are milestones to these are things to go through, even the the tough ones cuz you can get all the advice in the world. You can't avoid certain pitfalls and you've got to just build an armor to be able to push through it, right? And there's no there is no book out there. There is no information out there that tells you when it's time to knuckle down. I think that just comes down to instinct as well.

It's got to be who you are. >> You've got to enjoy the journey because you got to go through all the stages. >> And I look back and some some of my I I remember setting up my first gym >> and when you're starting you're hemorrhaging money. >> Yeah. Yeah. you you pour every penny that comes in, you're putting back in. You're buying more equipment, but you're buying it with money sometimes you don't have. And I remember at one point in in year one, I remember going to Leads, the McDonald's in the Maran Center in Leeds, top end of Leeds, and I remember Mard failed in McDonald's. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, >> but I look back on that year one as the business was growing and it were like I look back now and laugh because I remember I was selling clothes on eBay but I had I had a vision and by year two and year three the revenue just did that >> but I had to go through the hard times >> you know and and I weren't unhappy. I had no money. Everything was going into the business but I was so passionate about the project and I knew it would come good >> and I weren't scared to ask for advice when when I did trouble. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it it was a case of, you know, like you said, I look back now and I look back with fond memories at year one when I had nothing.

I sold my house. >> I bought I sold a lovely big house to buy a a two bed bungalow without a kitchen. >> Mhm. >> I was living in absolute sort of squalor for that first year or two. >> Yeah. >> And you know, but it's just you go through those phases. >> Yeah. >> Building painful ones, you know, struggling, struggling, struggling. And sometimes you just get out the other side of it. >> So now you're almost paying that forward now though, aren't you? >> I want to stop people making mistakes because I see a lot of people who could do really well >> and because of obvious glaring things that you can fix pretty quickly. >> Mhm. they could have a really great business or a really great coaching business, you know, and it some of some of the things that I've implemented for people is just sometimes you've got the wrong equipment for your type of member. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Your name, your logo, your branding, your message doesn't talk to your ideal client. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You're trying you're trying to get John Smith in who's a 40 year old male, >> but you've got branding marketing that appeals to 18 year olds.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you're wondering why you're struggling and you literally you might be pouring all the effort in, but if you're rowing the boat in the wrong direction. So, sometimes it's turning the boat around and thinking, right, where are we headed? Who's the ideal client? >> Mhm. >> What language do they talk?

Where do they go? What do they read? You know what? Doing a deep dive into your ideal client, a real deep dive into it. It all starts from there. >> And then you kind of build the solution problem that solves their problem.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> So, it's reverse engineering sometimes the the gym or the coaching business because people go in and sometimes I've had people who try really hard and it's not laziness, >> but they've just got the message wrong, >> you know, they don't know who they're trying to appeal to. Well, well, I just I'm trying to appeal to everyone. >> When does the idea start, though?

So, what we always try to hit home for everybody is when you first start, especially in fitness, you might not have a clear vision straight away. >> PTS, they shouldn't niche down too early. >> Yeah. >> PTS you should learn your craft. >> Mhm. >> Cuz people come in and they say, "Oh, I want to train young lads. I want to train young young women. I want to do this." But what you sometimes find is after six months of training that type of client, they're like, I realized I don't enjoy it. >> I actually enjoy the 40year-old to 50 year old professional people who >> execute what you say. >> Mhm. >> Are very diligent. >> Yeah. >> And you get better results with them. >> Yeah. >> So I just say to PTS who are starting, have an open mind. >> Yeah. >> Go on the gym floor and actually start training all types of clients. And then over time you'll realize what is your northstar. >> I want to train women over 40. >> Yeah. >> Men under 25 to do contest prep. >> Yeah. >> Whatever your market is, you'll figure it out as you go. >> I don't think at the start >> you haven't got enough experience to know what you're going to be good at and what you going to coach. >> Yeah. So I think I think when it comes to building a business physical bricks and mortar you need to have a very clear >> otherwise you've got to like tear it all down and rebuild it. >> Yeah.

You have to you have to change your aspects again and again and again. I mean even when I did it I I went through that route. I was training anybody and everybody. And then my sort of niche has come around now mainly training women for strength training. Yeah.

And >> someone actually asked me the other day like why do you like why most of your clientele all women? And I came down to very simple fact is they listen and they do Yeah. >> They do exactly what you say because BS you tell them something they'll go yeah I can do it better. I do you know what I mean? >> And obviously your your style and your method and your and your coaching obviously women get great value from that. >> So as a result of that they'll probably tell more women who go I've got the guy for you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And it builds from there.

So, it's a case of you sometimes by accident >> as a PT, as a coach, you think, well, I never set out to coach that kind of person, but that's that's my market and I love it. >> It works. >> Have you uh So, I know you probably got a lot of these goals, but have you got any goals for the next few years? What What's your approach now? What are you trying to do? >> Well, currently in the middle of a big refurb at at um at 6 ft at the moment. We're doing spending a lot of money on that place just trying to trying to get it to a place where I feel I've got it as good as it it can possibly be. >> So that's you know it's been a project transforming it from an older club to a rebranding it complete new look new feel equipment and obviously on a bigger site 20,000 square foot it's >> it's quite a costly operation costly operation. >> Yeah. So we're we're sort of 70 80% through that project.

So I still I'd like to spend more time because I love mentoring and helping gym owners, smallbox owners and and and coaches. So I want to dedicate over the next couple of years get back to doing one two days a week dedicated mentoring and coaching. So once this project starts demanding less of my time, >> yeah, >> I can then start helping more people, which I just enjoy. You know, people said years ago, what would you do for free if if you didn't get paid for it and you'd enjoy it? >> And the coaching and mentoring because it's it's like I love going into a business and quickly spotting stuff. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. >> Cuz I'm like, "Oh, there's some quick wins here." from walking to the car park looking at everything from is the front door clean >> what's it like first impression you straight away you've got this mental bang bang bang that needs to change that needs to change I've walked in you've got you've got free weights as soon as I've walked in the door >> if I'm trying to appeal to women who might be nervous >> yeah yeah yeah >> you know sometimes like I said the the product doesn't match who you're trying to attract >> yeah you it's those little aha moments in where you can walk in and go, "Ah, that makes" and usually like obviously you're coming from that perspective, the gym owners, the PTs, they're not going to see that because >> you can't you can't read the label when you're inside the bottle. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And everyone's inside the bottle. >> Yeah. >> So, you need somebody to come and look at look at you with a 30,000 foot view >> and go, "Right, here's your blind spot." >> And sometimes you can achieve great things quickly. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Because sometimes if you've been in the industry long enough, you get to spot blind spots quickly >> because you can just walk in a gym and go, "Right, change that, change that, change that, change that, that needs moving, that needs moving." You can have an action plan within a day. >> So one day consult in a gym, you can give them sometimes overwhelm. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> But it's like here's the big levers. Let's change that first and that first, then we'll move on to that that that and that.

Mhm. >> So, I love that going into a site or going into somebody's culture business and go, "Tell me about your business." They tell you about it and you go, "Okay, you can quickly go, right, let me give you some insight." And you can say, "Well, you're trying to appeal to >> 30year-old mom who's nervous and anxious >> and you're called, you know, Barry's Barry's bodybuilding." Do you know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You're kind of like that nervous person who you're trying to attract. You're not talking to them. >> You're the gym rat who shredded eating chicken and broccoli seven times a day and they're thinking, "I could never be like that." Yeah.

And there's a disconnect. >> Yeah. It's the same thing when Ryan goes on about this all the time when bodybuilders turn into coaches and then the first thing they do is they put a photo of them in little underpants, you know, doing all flexes. I want to help women do this and do that. >> Help nervous women. Yeah. Confidence. >> Yeah.

You're not you're not ideally specifying and you're not looking like you want to help these people. >> Yeah. It is. And sometimes as fitness professionals, we're not talking in their language. >> Yeah. >> We're talking in fitness jargon. >> A treadmill to a 70-year-old's a walking machine. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And we still use the word treadmill. >> Yeah. >> We're not talking to them in their world. >> Yeah. And I think, and this comes back to whether you're a coach, gym owner, SGPT, box owner, know who you're talking to. >> You know, is it a walking machine or is it a treadmill? >> Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. >> You know, this thing you do 10 times, Barbara, it's going to strengthen those arms you mentioned to me. She doesn't want to know. It's called a a bicep curl with a 3-second eccentric. Barbara doesn't care. She's 65 and she wants to get a bit stronger. >> Yeah. talk to Barbara in Barbara's language. >> Yep.

Yep. And uh I saw a woman the other day there's a gym somewhere down south and they built a BBL room. So this is where women specifically go to build their ass and they just they just named it the BBL room and it's just full of equipment says that's where you go and do that and it's going to drive people in there because they seriously want to train the glutes. It talks to them. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. talks to them because what you're saying is if you want to get better glutes in that area, >> you're going to get it. >> You're fixing a problem. >> Fixing a problem that people want to solve and that's it, you know, and whatever your fitness business is, whatever you coach, if it's confidence, if it's contest prep, whatever it is, >> just talk to those people in a language they understand. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> So, that's a big thing we do. We talk in jargon. >> Yep, we do. I've really enjoyed that. Thank you so much. >> Yeah. No, no, great. >> I appreciate it. >> You know, always happy to sort of, you know, impart whatever whatever things I've learned over the years and you know, it's I always enjoy talking all things fitness. >> Well, we love to have you on again as well and >> part two anytime. >> Come down, visit the gym because I've been looking at I'll be really interested to see it as well.

See the project >> comes over. Yeah, I think if you come over this December, some of this next phase of works will be complete. So I'm going to show you this phase before we start on the next phase. So never ends. >> So just for everybody, where are you based? What what where do people find the gym? >> Yeah, Miles Holstead uh on Instagram, Facebook, and our gym page is Sixfit Gyms.

If you can see that SixFit Gyms, >> get the badging >> on. Yeah, get the bad on Instagram and Facebook. And you know, you can have a look at what we do, the kind of messaging we put out. you know, some of it's educational, some of it's what we're doing, trying to keep members informed. So, yeah, it's just, you know, being authentic and trying to be who you are. >> Absolutely. Well, thank you so much. >> No problem.

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