Ridge Holland on Big E, Rugby League & Life After WWE

Triple H my boss. Uh I've met Vince. I've met Shawn Shawn Michaels. He's the boss in NXT, which is the developmental territory obviously. Um but yeah, the main was was Austin cuz I've been watching him since I was a kid and he was like my favorite wrestlers.

Okay, so we've got a really special guest today on the Launch Lab podcast. Now, this gentleman's had quite a journey. Um, I've known him maybe it's 15 years before he reached superstardom, and I remember watching him train hard and train properly in my old gym. So, myself and Luke, who was on the podcast, Luke Menses, um was a member when he was a professional athlete at one of my former gyms, and I saw his meteoric rise, and we're going to dive into that and see what he's up to now. So, welcome, Luke.

Hey, Miles. How are you doing? It's uh it's nice to finally see a familiar face and uh one that I always enjoyed seeing when I used to come to train and it it was uh I can't believe it's been like you know 15 15 years since we like first met probably going. >> Yeah. Crazy. >> And whereabouts are you now Luke in in the States? Where where are you where are you at? >> So I'm I'm based I always say Orlando but I'm based kind of just south of Orlando in a in a in a city called St.

Cloud. Um it's just nice. It's quiet off the beaten off the beaten track. So just how I like it. >> Okay. So let let's get straight to it then.

So from a Yorkshire lad >> to the WWE in America. I mean that is I mean when you talk about a journey, break that down for us. Give us a bit of insight. >> Um well I'd always been a wrestling fan, believe it or not. Like kind of my one of my guilty pleasures or not a guilty pleasure but something I kept for myself, you know. So from the age of like I would say six, I used to watch the old reruns of World of Sport with my nan, you know, Big Daddy, Johnny A Stacks, all that kind of stuff. >> Yeah.

And then uh coinciding with that, my dad played my dad played rugby. Um and it got to a certain point I got to about seven, eight years old, my dad's like, "Right, it's time to put your boots on, kid." And so I ended up playing Bat Boys and going through all the junior stuff and still still watching wrestling, you know, side by side and we had mates and stuff. And obviously you'll know Keegan Keegan who used to I'm so best mates with him. We used to watch wrestling together and stuff and >> and then I ended up getting picked up by Salford Red Devils when I played for Driton. Um >> went through that academy.

I moved at Bradford came in. Bradford swiped me from underneath Sulford's nose. Went to Bratford like very limited uh spots in the first team there obviously because I had a lot of superstars and I was just a young a young a young whippers snapper. Um, so I moved to Battlely Bulldogs and then I'd club after club after club. Managed to get into sup league with whole KR, dropped back down into the first first division and then uh finished at Sulford and I got I got released from Sulford while I was on honeymoon.

So I got a phone call saying, "Yeah, you know, we're not going to renew your contract." So, oh, charming. So, I'm I'm obviously still still kind of a wrestling fan and stuff and I'm I'm going through Twitter and I see a tweet from William Regal who's obviously people who know know William Eagle, this famous British wrestler and he was he was uh kind of uh championing the the coaching services of the man that coached him back in the day, a guy called Marty Jones who used to wrestle the world of sport in the world of sport. Um he was like a se seven time mid- heavyweight champion and he's based in Olden. He's from Olden, from Shaw. So I uh emailed him, laid in bed in Cancun, uh emailed me straight back.

Two days later, I flew home, went to my first wrestling practice, and then 6 months later, um WWE try out. But within that time, obviously bills need paying. So I got approached by Brian Noble to uh sign for Toronto Wolfback. So, I did a preseason with Toronto Wolfpack while we're going through the the tryyouts with with the WWE and then WWE said, you know, how easy is it to get out of a rugby contract? And I said, I'll show you.

And so, >> wow. >> Wow. >> To them. And then, >> yeah, I just moved over to moved over to the States. But we had a bit of a a uh a hiccup because my my initial visa got declined, which put my move on hold for 12 months. decided to go out and wrestle on the independent scene around Europe to prove to the US government that I was a wrestler. So once we got all that approved, me, my wife, and my eight-month old daughter at the time, we uh made the jump over to the States. So just I mean, you you make that sound really simple, you make that just sound like an effortless transition.

So pro rugby player straight away. Oh, no sweat, no problem. Oh, I'll just go in the WWE, I'll go to the States, no problem. Move my family. But I mean talk me through the the stresses, the mindset, the resilience in in that sort of in that space. >> Well, so you you you you firstly have the the disappointment of getting released from your contract when I was with Sulford, right?

They're not going to renew you. So you it's like, okay, the only thing I've known how to do, Miles, is I've always used my body to earn a living. You know, I'm not I don't have any really degrees as such. You know, I don't have a trade. I've my trade has always been physical stuff, sport, athletics.

So I'm like, okay, what can I do here? And I'd always previously when I was like 20 and 24, I'd inquired at wrestling schools to get into the business and you kind of got shot down, told the wrong people, rubs, why do you want to do that [\h__\h] You know what I mean? No. Um, and I was like, just a leap of faith. I'm I'm going to try it, you know?

And then obviously there's my wife. She thinks I'm going through a midlife crisis, you know, or an early midlife crisis going to, you know, going from a pro athlete playing Super League to going to this warehouse in middle of alum wrestling wrestling guys, you know. >> So, did did you how did you break that to did you say I'm swapping tight rugby shorts for spandex? Is that what you said? >> It pretty much cuz I'd kept like how much I like wrestling like pretty secret for me wife. She never knew how like I never watch it with her. I never I never catch her let her catch me watching it. >> So, it was kind like a bit of a surprise.

So, I just said, "Look, I'm going to give this a go." >> And she thought it was a phase. Oh, even me dad said, you know, it's a phase. He'll he'll he'll just wants to try it. And, you know, >> Yeah. Okay.

Okay. Okay. It ended up just, you know, the coach thought I had something. I took to it like a duck to water. And then the the WWE was coming over uh to a to do triyouts in Glasgow at the uh SE SEC arena I think it is in Glasgow.

So we had triyouts there and you had to go upstairs and cut a promo in a room. So you had a minute and at this point I don't even I'd not wrestled like a professional show. I was just training. So there's like William Eagle there. There's a few other guys.

You've got to cut a one minute promo. Um so you I did it. had just spoke about my time in rugby, what happened, all this, and ended up loving it. Uh, and I had one of the coaches say to me, if you do that again tomorrow, I think you've got yourself a job. Um, >> right. >> So, it was the mindset was just like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I feel I need to do this. It was something in me that said I need I need to do this, you know, as far as like traveling to old doing the wrestling training and taking the flack from from my mates and stuff about why we're doing it and even being misunderstood.

There was something in me that went something drawing me to it and a need to do it and um it's hard to describe. It just felt like it's something that I was uh destined to do, you know. So >> obviously physically the strength, the mobility, the athleticism, everything else from rugby and training carries over to wrestling. Obviously, you need the skills and the technical skills, but when you see the showmanship and the, you know, the you like like you said the promo reels, you know, you I remember Hulk Hogan and, you know, Ultimate Warrior in in sort of like the olden days doing the famous like sketches. I don't know what it's called, but is there like a training school for that to learn that? >> Yeah.

So, there's there's a train it's called the performance center and it's based in Orlando. That's why all the new recruits, they come and live in Orlando so they can report to the performance center and it's there. It's a job. You're in there five, six days a week. You know, there's there's five, six, seven rings.

There's a full on strength and conditioning uh area. We have strength coaches. There's special rooms where you have promo class where you can record yourself cutting a promo, watch yourself back, get critiqued. There's even like a um a readym made TV studio in there where they host wrestling shows um weekly on like you know big networks in the US. So everything that you need as a as a budding professional wrestler to improve is there like under one under one roof.

If you can imagine like if the NFL had a performance center you know and everything you needed to know about being an NFL player would be under that roof. That's what that's WB's version. I get you. So, right. Next question I've got for you is is so you go over there, you show your physical prowess, you start doing all these I don't want to use acting skills for the camera and everything else.

When do you get your wrestling name? How how does that come about? Well, so first off, what they do is I remember when I first got there, I wasn't expected to to wrestle for the for the first couple of months and I got there and I think the first two weeks I was I made my my TV debut was Luke Menses um just kind of as like an enhancement talent for for more experienced wrestlers on TV. Um, so I had a couple of outings as like Luke Menses and working the untelvised shows and then when you're getting ready for TV like to be focused upon and become a a regular character, they come to you and they say, "Look, can you give us 20 names?" So I'm like, "Uh, okay." So within your promos and stuff, you're kind of working on a character what might fit well. So I was going down the lines of like a kind of Yorkshire Peaky Blinders, Bill Sykes, you know, kind kind of like Vinnie Jones, Snatches, Guy, Richie, kind of all those amalgamated into one, right? >> Yeah. >> I'm thinking, okay, I need a name that kind of So I wanted a British name.

So I either wanted Archie, Charlie, or Tommy >> because they're obviously synonymous with kind of British British sounding names. I'm thinking, okay, I need a surname that I always like being a bad guy. So I need something with like negative connotations. So I went Malice. So I was like it was either going to be Archie Charal or Tommy Malice.

That was one the one that I wanted but they didn't like it. So then I wrote down 20 names that meant nothing to me. And then they picked Ridge and then from one name then Holland off another and put those two together and said look um the boss man likes this. And I turned it down at first. I said I think it's [\h__\h] Don't like it.

I mean I've never I've never met a Yorkshire guy fell ridge you know. No, it sounds it sounds very very um statesesque, you know, an American name, doesn't it? Ridge massively. And so I turned it down and then they came back to me a couple weeks later said, "Listen, like he really likes this." So I'm like, "Well, he's he's paying the checks. He's he's writing the show, so I guess I guess we'll give it a go." And that's how Ridge Holland was was born really.

So there was no other was there any like other alter egos like, you know, you weren't going to be like m Mr. Hot Guy or you know, coming in with a hot pants on there? There were no other characters. No. >> Uh, no. Not really.

I'd always gone in with the intention of being a being a bad guy. And >> it's a heel, isn't it? >> Yeah. Heel. Yeah. Heel's a bad guy.

Yeah. Sort of villain. Um, and I just I always liked that kind of the kind of guy Richy-esque type thing. And there'd never been a lad from like Yorkshire in there really that that that would talk and put that character across. And it it ended up being really hard to do that because they just don't understand the vernacular, you know.

Um, so it was hard to put that across. So I had to kind of the thing with your promos and things when you get on TV, they're written for you, >> right? >> So when you've got an American American lad that's never been in a fight before, never been a pro alete, never been to England, doesn't understand how we talk from Yorkshire and he's telling you to say, "I'm I'm going to kick your ass." I how many lads in Yorkshire miles would you say if you got into a bit of a a situation would say that to you? You they wouldn't would they you know >> no on a night out and down Batley in the olden days you'd not hear that would you know that's not what you'd hear. >> No no you you'd hear something a little bit more um selective let's say. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I think we've both experienced that. So so so that so you start your wrestling >> at this point. What what are you finding the most difficult? What's the most difficult part of learning this new craft? >> So, I'd say I I always So, the thing that that I found easy was like the moves and stuff and the athletic things.

Obviously, coming from an athletic background, the hardest thing was probably the psychology of of putting a wrestling match together. So, if you think about it, our job is really to suspend the audience's disbelief and and and garner emotional reactions from them. And we garner those emotional reactions via what we do in the ring. So there's there's there's a psy there's a there's a kind of like a there's a psychological psychological component to what we do. Everything everything that you do in the ring needs to mean something and there needs to be a reason for it.

And the modern style of wrestling that's kind of gone by the wayside. But how I was taught everything that you do needs to have a meaning. Like for instance me being a heel um a bad guy, it'd always be doing something underhanded. It'd always been attacking a guy from behind. you know, even if he was down on the floor, I'd circle behind him and attack attack a guy from behind and things like that. Things that looked underhanded and people would resonate and think, "Oh, that was a bit shitty." And doing things like that.

And then you'd get you'd garner that negative emotion from the fans and they'd want to see the the the babyface, the good guy, come back and and smash me to pieces and then they get the sympathy from him selling. So that's the psychology part and just knowing like not just what but how not just what to do but how where and when and that's that's the toughest bit. >> So I've got right I've got to ask I've got to ask this. So I think I think most most grown-ups appreciate that wrestling is it's theater. It's >> it you know there's a planned ending and a planned victor and all the rest of it. So to and I and I imagine and correct me if I'm wrong, it's quite detailed the actual plan of the match by both parties before.

So do you two get together in the room beforehand and you you map out the match? Is that how it works? Uh pretty much. I mean like there's an art to it of like uh say like the booker or the office, you know, or the boss man saying listen we want this is a finish. this is the finish of the match and then the the two the two guys would just be able to go out there and call it in the ring. There's certain ways that you can communicate in the ring whether it be a touch or talking and how to communicate in the ring and we can still still do that.

But now with the advent of everything being so like on such a big scale with with with cameras and tight shots and everything like that and everything's miked up and they don't want to miss these shots, it's very heavily produced. So to your point, yeah, we'd get instruction of what the the boss the boss man wanted and then we'd have a producer with us or an agent. We'd go together and we'd throw ideas around and see what would fit where and stuff and see what how we would tell this story the best way possible and have an entertaining match within the the time constraints. Like it might be a two segment match. You might have a a a segment uh a 4m minute segment up front, a three and a half minute break and then a six minute segment on the back end.

So you have to plan break spots. You have to plan spots to come when you come back on air and all that meant time when when you're dark when you're in commercial break, you're still working for the live audience. So it's like spinning plates. The referee's talking to you. >> The referee's talking to you. He's communicating times.

You're communicating to your to your opponent. So like there's a lot of things going on. is he's it really is a skill and the guys that are fantastic at it are are truly like masters of the craft. >> And so in your in you're in WWE so you know so who who did you dance around the ring with then? Give me some give me some names. What were the biggest names you danced around the ring with? >> Oh man, I mean I I wrestled recent like probably like what was it 2022 like Roman Reigns. We were in like a war games match with Roman Reigns.

Um Sami Zayn, Kevin Owens, uh Drew McIntyre, Sheamus, um not on TV, but was we was in the room with John Cena, uh like a an after show thing for the live audience. Um yeah, there's been a few. I've I've bumped into not wrestled and stuff, but obviously bumped into, you know, the Undertaker and and and Steve Austin at Wrestlemania and stuff because Austin was my guy. He was the man that made me want to be a wrestler. So, who who was who were the ones that made you actually like have a bit of like be starruck? >> So, the only one was Austin.

Like I'd met obviously Triple H, my boss. Uh I've met Vince. I've met Shawn Shawn Michaels. He's the boss in NXT, which is the developmental territory obviously. Um but yeah, the main was was Austin cuz I've been watching him since I was a kid and he was like my favorite wrestler.

So, um, meeting him was like a, oh [\h__\h] it's stone cold cuz he's not around a great deal, you know. >> Um, he's on a ranch in in Nevada somewhere, you know, keeping himself out of the way. So, when he when he pops up, it's kind of like, oh [\h__\h] you know. >> Wow. So, from a physical perspective then, you know, as as as a pro wrestler at the highest level, what is your sort of training in terms of how much is like SNC gym strength training? How much is wrestling skills? How many hours a week?

Give me a bit of a breakdown. >> So in initially when you start you're wrestling. So when I first started it would it be like Monday. So you'd be in the ring um three hours two two hours two or three hours in a class. So it' be Monday Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday. You'd be in two or three hours in in the morning in your class.

Then there'd be extra ring and you'd have to go. That'd be compulsory. you'd have to go to extra ring like later on like 3 or 4 in the afternoon. And what you do is you probably have you would have your ring time in the morning for 2 hours. Then you go straight into the gym. Then you'd have a little bit of downtime, grab some food, and then you would go back for extra ring.

And then Thursday, sorry, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, we had these things called coconut shows, which were live events around Florida where guys could get in front of a live crowd and hone their craft. So you would you would kind of train in the morning on a on a Thursday and a Friday and then you would get in your car, put your suit on or put your smart clothes on and have your wrestling gear and then travel two hours to Jacksonville and go put the ring up you, you know, put the chairs out and and and and in these armories and then wrestle on the show and then travel back and then do the same again, you know, Friday and Saturday. So I would say yeah you a good what 10 hours 10 12 hours of wrestling and then probably four days four four times a week you're lifting. I would always like to do my own lifting though like I'm very I always have my own coaches you know what I mean? I'm very particular about about how I train and what I do.

Um, a lot of the guys will follow like train like bodybuilders, but as we all know, it's very 2D. You know, there there's not a lot of, you know, athletic components to that style of training. And then you see guys that are tearing pecs, tearing biceps and and things of that nature. Um, so I always like to keep things relatively athletic. What is there and this this is something I've heard on the mentioned before from wrestling.

Is there any sort of pressure on you to maintain your a certain look, a certain body fat percentage depending on your character? Is is that something that's brought up regular or I I wouldn't say I I wouldn't say it's like it's like uh if you're in shape, you're in shape and they don't really, you know, uh bother with you. But I think it comes down to like a per a personal standard like it cuz if you think of wrestling, it's a variety show, right? We've got big, tall, skinny, fat, muscular, you know, men, women. It it it's a variety show.

So, there's a place for everyone, but you at the end of the day, you need to be able to be to be safe in the ring, which means you need to have your wind, you need to be relatively strong in the ring, uh, and you need to be durable. So regardless whether you're carrying an extra extra few% body fat, you need to make sure that you're doing your cardio and and you're getting your conditioning in. So as long as your performance isn't isn't marred by your physical um you know by by your physical condition, you you're okay. >> Wow. Yeah. Back in the day back in the day obviously everyone was you know 300 pounds absolutely gassed to the gills.

That was just how it was, right? But now things have changed slightly. Yeah, because the wrestling look I I know there's outliers but um you know if you go back 20 25 years the majority of them could have stood on a bodybuilding stage most of them couldn't they yeah they could have done and 25 years ago the even like 25 30 years ago a lot of them the schedule there they were wrestling you know two two they were on the road 250 to 300 days a year you know and then not to mention what did they have to do to maintain those physiques while on two hours sleep a night, you know, driving, you know, driving four hours every night. It's just taking the punishment obviously working injured, you know, and that's why we had unfortunately a lot of guys from from like the 80s and stuff pass away relatively early. I know we've heard about the British Bulldog and people like that pass away early due to, you know, painkillers and and a a cocktail of of things just to keep going, but it's in a better spot now.

They have drug testing. The medical the medical supervision is topnotch. The schedule's a hell of a lot lighter. So, we get treated or they because I'm not with anymore, but they get treated a lot more like ath like athletes, like a priority. Now, >> um, you mentioned like the 250 days on the road.

What was kind of like a typical schedule for you in terms of travel? >> So, it would differ with with obviously NXT. It would be what I said obviously training training like five days a week and then three shows. >> So, you you do Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and that would be just within Florida, but it it'd be like it could be a 200 mile, you know, trip, you know, each each way. Um but then when I got up to the main roster on Smackdown, we would we'd fly out to whatever city it was um on a Thursday evening for Smackdown on Friday. We'd do Smackdown. We'd get in a car, me and me and Pete, my tag partner.

We get in in a car. We drive however many hours or miles it would be to the next town to the hotel. get in at 3:00 4 in the morning, sleep, get up, go to the gym, head to the show, do the show, rinse and repeat, you know, drive to the next town, and then depending on whether they needed us for RAW Monday night, we catch a flight to RAW or drive to RAW, or we fly home Monday morning, and then we'd have two days at home, three days at home, and then rinse and repeat that. So, it's Yeah, it's it's still a grind. It was still a grind. Now, it's now the schedule's even lighter.

They don't really have house shows. Um, so yeah, they just do TVs now. >> Um, but it was still a grind back then. Yeah. >> Wow. And so, so from starting in the WWE to I know you've just mentioned obviously you're not and obviously cuz cuz I follow you on socials. I know you've had one hell of a journey and some real bad luck. >> Um, so what as as you sort of do you want to talk about your injuries now and what happened? >> Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, so I I was probably in the company probably about a year, 18 months, and I was about I was set for like having a really big call it a push where, you know, you're going to be a focal point and they're going to kind of make you one of the one of the guys and I ended up um I was outside the ring and a guy dove on me and as I went to catch him um I took a step back and I kind of caught him relatively high. So I had to step back which fractured and dislocated my left ankle and I did me here. So I was still trying to hold him. So as well as fracture fracturing and doing all that damage to my left ankle all that weight went through my right leg which caused my knee to come in which caused the patella to dislocate which caused the patella tendon to rupture.

So all in one fail swoop I blew both my legs out. Um so that was like 10 months 10 months on the sideline. Um, I managed to rehab that and come back. They thought they thought that I were done. Like I I remember when I came back from injury, the the medical staff said, "We thought you were done." Like we didn't think you'd come back from it. >> Yeah.

Because they're quite I mean for anybody who's in who's in the fitness and sporting industry that they could be career ending, couldn't they? >> Yeah, without a doubt. Yeah, without a doubt. But it just go it's testament to like the the the physical therapy, you know, uh members of the at the WWE that they know the stuff and obviously you've got to put the work in. I work my ass off, but without their guidance, I don't think I would have I would have been back in this shape that I ended up being in. Um but I came back um ended up getting called up to Smackdown.

Um and then I think my first pay-per-view was on New Year's Day. I ended up uh someone landed on my face and broke my nose. Um, now usually I would with a broken nose I have carried on, but what they had a strict no blood policy and my my nose was pissing blood. I couldn't get it to stop. So they I had to leave the match, a tag team match.

Um, my nose was like over here on my face. So they tried straightening it, couldn't do it. I had to fly to Nashville for for the nose job. Um, that'll fix me nose. So that put me back about six weeks.

Uh, then So basically the modeling career is back on now. Yeah. Now you've got like well my nose is better than it's ever been now mate so I can charge a bit of premium you know. >> Yeah. >> Um >> but and then we we had an an issue where unfortunately was involved in an accident where a gentleman broke his neck. Um I give him an overhead belly a belly suplex and it just went went arry and he landed on his head broke his neck. Um he's okay now.

He's he can't he can't wrestle again but he's not doesn't have any nerve damage. he he kind of fractured his uh his C1 vertebrae. Um so he's he's he can't wrestle anymore, but I c I cpped a lot of flack after that and that kind of derailed my career because when something big like that happens and he was a big star, um it's it's a big thing when you're when you're kind of involved in in in a spot where someone gets hurt and I was new. >> How did you feel? How did that sort of make you feel? >> Terrible, mate. I had like confidence-wise like it took me probably 3 years to get over it confidence wise. I didn't want to touch anyone. >> Yeah. >> Didn't want to even get in the ring and touch anyone.

Uh >> um and then just from there it was like always this black cloud. I had social media. I got like death threats to my house and stuff and I still get it to this day. So that that was a big a big a big thing. Um, and then due to that there was like a black cloud hanging over me from from like the I could tell like the way that things were that people had lost a bit of confidence in me due to that.

Um, so I I I asked if I could go back down from the main roster to back down to NXT for a bit of a um what's the word like a character repackage or a rebrand. >> Yeah. with with the view of coming back up in six months kind of a bit bit, you know, with a bit more shine and and and just just kind of reestablished and that just didn't end up work working out. Um they had other ideas. Uh and then um I ended up like winning some tag belts in NXT and challenging for the for the heavyweight title and stuff, but um nothing really focused on me. It was always to kind of like get someone else over. >> Yeah. And then I ended up um I was due to um my contract was coming up and I wrestled they have a partnership with another wrestling company called TNA.

So I gone down there to wrestle their world champion at that time Mike Santana and the day after I wrestled a guy called Moose and I caught him in a power bomb. So I popped him up and he's so so athletic. He jumped so high I like nearly lost him. So I caught him stepped back again and then the the left foot had a frank injury where it's like a midfoot dislocation. So the ligaments in the that hold your foot together they snapped and it felt like imagine someone's getting a dish cloth and ringing it out in your boot.

That's what it felt like. So I had to have surgery. And then during the time that I was recovering from that, my neck was giving me issues. So I went to see a specialist. They said, "You've got two collapsed discs in your neck.

You you need you need a fusion." Well, there's no way I'm having a fusion. I didn't want a fusion. I've seen what it does to people. So, I found a doctor in Manhattan, Dr. Karishi out of HSS in Manhattan, and he'd worked on UFC fighters and hockey players, and they've all gone back to like, you know, full contact sports.

And he we did a a double a two-level um artificial disc replacement. So, now I've just got two titanium discs in my neck. Um, and I'm I'm sweet. So yeah, that's basically where where I'm at at this moment in time. Yeah. >> Okay.

So, so, so just want to touch on on your training philosophy. So, young lad in batley. >> Yeah. >> You go through rugby, you build up the physique, you build up the strength that serves you well, professional athlete, gets you the look and the athleticism and everything for the WWE at the age you're at now. obviously going through that journey. How has your training changed? What's your what's your sort of training philosophy now? >> So now now I I take obviously I still have a coach, you know, I'm coached by a gentleman called Luke Leman who used to be an educator for Charles Poloquin or the Poloquin group back in the day. He's he's the man.

He's >> Wow. That takes me back. I used to love I used to go to every Charles Poloquin seminar could wherever it was. Yeah. >> Yeah. He's he's the man, man.

And he's like a wealth of knowledge. the smartest guys that I know anyway. So he he writes at the minute right now I'm just wanting to stay get back feeling a bit athletic after been being on the shelf for seven months. So we're doing a kind of like a a mixture of of bodybuilding and then on some days I'm doing some Olympic weightlifting. Uh so I'm just relearning relearning those movement patterns. >> Yeah. >> And then we're going to start throwing some conditioning in there, some sprints and things like that. So, it's all a matter of just, you know, getting getting back feeling feeling good.

And the big thing for me now because I'm I'll be 38 this month. I've had a lot of injuries. So, it's longevity. And what we found now with obviously the research is when people start breaking down when they lose that power output, when they stop training power, you know, and that that neural efficiency. >> Yeah. Yeah.

So this is why that I thought okay I want to start doing this you know you know Olympic weightlifting and start you know learning those skills cuz not only for the for obviously for the for the power output um but obviously for the mental it's learning a new skill. >> Yeah. >> You know so that that keeps us going. Um, but as far as like my philosophy now is just prioritizing sleep, prioritizing recovery, and just making sure that I'm not drilling myself into the ground cuz I've done that before and realized that I wasn't making progress when I was younger. I wanted to get bigger. I wanted to get stronger and I would just throw the kitchen sink at everything and yeah, you just can't recover from it. Um, so now it's okay, one, wake up.

How did I sleep? How do I feel? Can I push today? You know, um how's the body feeling? Am I getting my mobility working?

Um do I just need to go for a walk today? So, it's very much a suck it and see type thing. Yeah. And if if I can do what's programmed, great. If I can't, I'll let him know and we'll we'll we'll just kind of pivot.

So, what would you say that training mistakes? So along your journey, what looking back now, if you were to speak to a younger you, what would you be saying to that younger you now about training? >> Oh, I' I'd say stop looking at people that you want to look like and training like training how they train because they're a lot further on in their lifting career. what's working. They're at this moment in time, guys that are big and and and have made plenty of gains, whether it be with strength or size, they're refining and they're looking for extra 1% to to bring them up to whatever level they want to get to. As as a young man early in his training career, just focus on the basics. I would say two or three full body lifting sessions per week.

You know, focus on, you know, ver vertical vertical pull, horizontal pull, vertical push, horizontal push. you know, you've got hip in squat pattern and throw some unilateral work in there and Bob's your uncle. Um, just I think and I think bodybuilding has taken up such a big space in in in the fitness genre that people think that's how they should train anyway. You train like a bodybuilder. And it if you want to feel good and and look good, you can't always train like that. you know, bodybuilders are training for for a reason, and that's to get on stage one one one one day, two days out of the year, you know. So, I think people need to realize one, they need to have realistic expectations and and they need to um pick a modality of physical activity that they feel that they can see themselves doing 10 years down the line.

Yeah. That they enjoy because there's no point going to the gym. We've all been there. We've all said, "I hate this, but I'm going to do it because I think it's going to, you know, give me what what I'm searching for, but if you're not enjoying it, you're not you're not going to put forth the effort. Put forth the effort." What would you say?

So if you if you were giving out tra based on your breadth of knowledge and obviously the highest levels if you are programming now for somebody who wants to age well live well look decent you know move well what kind of things would be in a training plan what would you be writing out for that person? Oh, definitely. I think definitely now zone zone two cardio like even without without lifting just like under 20 minutes of zone two cardio per week within you know minute just for you know increasing metabolic flexibility in increasing you know the recovery capabilities and your aerobic capacity. If you if your aerobic capacity is higher you're able to recover more efficiently you know in between your sets and from your workouts. And not only that, you can you can utilize the nutrients better.

You know, you become quite sensitive. It has carryover to blood pressure and endlethal function and things like that. So, zone 2 cardio is massively underrated. It's not just a calorie funnel. Everyone uses cardio as a calorie funnel.

It's not a calorie funnel, you know. Um, it's a you're building the engine, you know, if you want to perform well. And then from >> strength-wise, give us give us your prescription. >> Oh, man. Strength-wise, I' I think I'd switch to obviously, like I said before, you know, you want the basics in there. You know, your horizontal, vertical pushes and pulls, and you want some knee dominant and you want some hip hinge, but I think things like front elevated split squats and and definitely a lot of posterior chain work is where people people miss out.

So, you know, back extensions, uh, reverse hypers, things of that nature. I definitely program program them. Um, and I think the the single leg and single arm stuff is is great just for ironing out discrepancies. Um, obviously that's where like if I if I have clients for instance and I'm I want them to record bellies for me and let's say it's a it's a front element of split squat, I'll say, can you record it for me? But on on your last set when you're under fatigue, because that's when that's when those holes kind of show themselves, right?

Um, and then we can we can program it. you know, we can we can say, okay, we need to do this, that, you know, you might just stay in the hole bit longer, slow down. Okay, have a bit of a long longer step. Don't be don't have your feet like a tight rope. Think train tracks and tight rope, all that kind of stuff. Um but I definitely think unilateral work and definitely um some form of like core work where whether it be anti-rotation work, you know, paloff presses, things of that, even like anti-rotation dead bugs, just things that are going to make you feel good and that that have definite carryover to to life.

I always kind of look at it as like when I'm 60, I still want to be able to run around with my grandkids. So if if we if we if we're stronger on, you know, like single limbs, I think I think I think that people are missing out on a lot if they're not including single limb training, unilateral training um in in the in their uh in in the programs. >> Yeah, makes perfect sense. I mean, I can I can echo a lot of what you just said that makes it's what I say to to most people, you know, doesn't have to be complex, doesn't have to be fancy. It's a lot of the basics. >> Yeah, it's always a lot of the basics and making sure that you know that you you're progressive you are progressively overloading, but now everyone thinks that progressive overloading is putting more weight on the bar. Yeah.

From from a from a basic standpoint, yeah, but it could be, you know, increasing tempo. It could be it could be standardizing your technique. You know, that's still progressively overloading. If you if you're improving your technique week on week, even with the same load, you're still progressively overloading. And then when you get your technique perfect and standardized, then we can look at loading and and and kind of adding more weight to the bar there or more weight to the to the exercise >> and obviously recoverability, making sure making sure that you know how well can you recover from from what you're doing, you know, the stimulus to fatigue ratio.

So, um I wouldn't say just smashing yourself is is the main thing, even if it's just two working sets. Um, and it's it's also for courses, you know, what's what's the what's the guy's goal? What what's what's the individual's goal? Is it fat loss? Is it muscle gain?

Is it is it do they just want to feel good? So, your program is going to your programming is going to change pretty much on on the goal of the of the uh of of the participant. So for your clients, what are the big things you measure, you track, and you hold them accountable for for their own for their own good and their own results? So the fir the first thing that I'll always do is it's it's always not giving them too much to like if if I went to okay these these are your macros I want you to eat these calories this protein this carbs this fat and they and they've never tracked before how long do you think that's going to last you know so I'll always give them a couple of little goals so I always make sure that say listen um let's focus on protein and let's focus on your overall calories just two things to work on then. And then once we get that nailed for like a solid two weeks, we can add something to that.

Something I would always do. Um I'll always ask if they can get on the scale in a morning just so we can get an average scale weight throughout the week. You know, in a morning fasted after they've been to the bathroom. Um but if they can't, just once a week will do. At least if you have a metric.

It's all about data. Especially being an online coach, I can't be in there with them. So the more data that they can give me the better when when we get you know that down the road. As far as training um we always kind of go through kind of like a uh either a structural balance or or a GPP phase with with our clients and that's obviously them learning how we're going to you know program down the line increasing skill tissue tolerance things things of that nature and it's me learning about them. So I'll always ask them to record the lifts like last working set um as we go on.

Um and then just I think the main thing being a coach for me is communication. So like on WhatsApp a lot it's daily touch points. How you doing? How you feeling? You know did you sleep well?

Um not just what you're doing in the gym but what you're doing out of the gym. So I'm very I don't want to say like controlling that's not the right word but I I like to know what they're doing. I like to know if they're traveling. I like to know how they're sleeping, if they're stressed, you know. So, there's there's a lot of metrics that we can use and even like wearables.

We use uh chronometer uh to for that nutrition tracking. And obviously, there's you can integrate wearables into that which gives us an idea of like the HIV, the resting heart rate. So therefore, in a training phase, we can tell if they're, you know, if they're getting getting pretty stressed out or to the point where whether they need to de lo, if that HIV is dropping and that resting heart rate is getting elevated, things like that. >> So they're the kind of things that I that I kind of look for down the line. >> Perfect. So, what currently in the fitness industry, what if you had a bin and you could grab things from the fitness industry that would never return, what would you be sort of putting in that bin right now? Oh, man.

See, it's it's funny because I I'm I'm of the I'm a big believer that everything works. Everything can work in context, right? Like there's a place for everything. It's just that people get so focused on one thing. I think that is the only thing that is the only way that you have to maneuver in in in you know in in whatever goal you want to achieve. >> Yeah. >> Um so I hate I hate I probably man fitness influencers they can go straight in the [\h__\h] bin.

Do you mean do you mean the the people who get believed who have absolutely zero knowledge of anything to do with training fitness but they might have a genetically good body so therefore they must oh I'm going to follow them because on Instagram they look good. Yeah. But yeah you summed it up because what I've what I've come to find is that like there's there's there's fitness influencers and there's coaches. >> Yeah. you know, and I don't think a coach will ever call themselves a fitness influencer. Um, so I think like what what you've just said then, guys that are always posting pics of their own body, guys that are, you know, don't really, it's very generic advice and and sometimes wrong advice. Um, or they'll even copy other people's content and put it out there.

And um especially nowadays with all the the the the the um the the the peptide kind of craze that's going on, right? Everyone's everyone's running peptides and stuff like that. And but I think some of the some of the peptide gurus were pushing crypto two years ago, weren't there? >> Yeah. It's it's just it's just another thing. Okay.

Oh, yeah. I want I want this peptide is the answer to everything. It cures everything, right? It's going to make you Superman. And just so happens I sell it, >> you know.

Yeah. Use use my follow the link below. That kind of thing. Yeah. >> Follow the link below for you know you use code [\h__\h] for the 10% discount, you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. 100%. It's Yeah. I think that we'll agree on that one. I mean, what do you what do you think the fitness industry has is doing well and and actually has evolved with what do you think we're doing right? >> So, I think there's a lot of good educators out there. I think that I I I think that it it's hard because the influencers get so much so much traction, but I just wish like there's things that go on like something going on in Las Vegas at the or we just finished called the Real Coaches Summit.

Um, and that's a place where you can go and you can pay for a ticket and there's all the top educators and and people that know that actually know things that you can learn from um, within the industry and go there and you can help your clients. Uh, so I think the good thing about the fitness industry is that people are putting out that content, they do it because they want to help people. I think that's that's the that's the best that's one of the main things is that the people that are putting out good content that that that is educational, they're doing it because not because they want to earn money. Um not because they want to be known as an expert, but because they genuinely want to help people. I think that's a sub a subsection of of the fitness industry that's doing things really well there.

Um the other thing is obviously I want money, I want clicks, I want this, I want that, I want grandioso state grandioso statements. Um, I want clickbait. That's a thing that should be shied away from because that leads people down the garden path and and unfortunately does no serves no purpose. So, how how so for for a young trainer who's getting into the business and for somebody who's wanting to get into the fitness business, coaching business, there's a there's a hell of a lot of fitness business grifters out there >> who, you know, all the talk about is your 10k a month, your 5k a month, your 30k, sell high ticket. And when I see those kind of words, straight away my [\h__\h] radar goes off. usually buy a rented Lamborghini or a rented Porsche outside a house they don't own. >> Yeah. >> You know, what advice would you say to to to people who get it's easy to get sucked in by that.

What would you say? >> So, I think to your point there everyone's saying scale up, right? That's that's that's the message, right? Scale up. You need to scale your business. >> Yeah. >> If if you've not got a business, you can't scale it, you know? So, I would say almost say scale down.

Start start small. >> Learn your craft. Learn your craft. Yeah, learn your craft and almost and that takes time as well. You're going to you would rather make mistakes when you when not as much money is on the line if you've got a massive fitness business and making mistakes that you should have should have made in your first two years of being a coach, you know, and making them 10 years down the line and and absolutely losing your ass. So, get in the gym, get training people, make mistakes, okay? not mistakes that are going to harm people, but make the same mistakes that we always have done and people are still making.

But make them early, learn from them, and then re read, do your research, pick up like I I'll go back to Luke, like Muscle Nerds Education. They have a um it's kind of like a monthly subscription. It's called Cerebro. It's $97 a month. And they put out a new a new a new uh a new lecture every month.

And they've got everything from programming to to, you know, stress and metabolism to anything. It's it's huge. And you can whittle your way through there and learn topics that will really help your clients and yourself. Um, and just find find mentors, find like-minded people that want to learn. Um, and >> people who've actually trod the path. >> Yeah.

And not more often than not those those people that are that have been there and done that, they still have that thirst for learning. they will always they're always learning. So if you want to find someone like that, someone to look up to almost like a mentor whether it's in you know in close conversation with or someone from afar where you can admire the work and kind of you know emulate you know just find some someone find someone who uh who's helped a lot of people. Excellent. And so what you know what does life look like now Luke? What what is it you're currently doing and what I know you're doing some coaching.

Tell you is that is that the taking up the bulk of your time? Um, pretty much at the minute, yeah. Um, the coaching is is a big thing. Obviously, I'm I'm a father of three. My wife just started working.

Um, so she's, uh, she's a property manager for a for a real estate company now. Um, so she's she's busy, so I'm kind of like kind of like flexible dad mode. You know, I'm working when I can, been with the kids when I can, school runs, drop off, this and that. Um, looking to get back into wrestling, so picking up bookings. Um, because I think I've still got an itch to scratch there.

Still got some to myself. And then it's just finding the time, like I mentioned, just to to stay educated and study myself and learn more. So sometimes I get overwhelmed because I've got so much things that I think I want to do. I I I struggle to like, okay, how can I find time to do all this stuff? >> So it's like, okay, just take it day by day. But definitely right now helping the clients that I've got, doing a good job.

Um, and then, you know, picking up some some bookings and getting back on the on the wrestling scene and obviously staying in shape and enjoy enjoying my my lifting and my training. And just for anyone watching this now or watching any of these clips, I can wholeheartedly recommend Luke because I do know he actually has walked the walk. He's taught the talk and he actually knows how to train and how to train people because I've seen it over the years myself when he was a even when he was a younger gentleman he knew how to train and he knew he knew his he knew what good training looked like and what good form and technique looks like. So I have no doubt that your client's form technique and everything is on point. Well, I hope so.

And if not, you know, I'll be cracking I'll be cracking the whip and stuff, but we we we try, right, as an online coach. It's sometimes it's a little bit difficult to to get everything nailed without being in there with them in person. Um, but you know, that's that's the challenge and that's I think that's the mark of a good coach. >> Yeah. And so for anybody who wants to obviously follow yourself, anybody who wants to get in touch for coaching, um, wrestling bookings, where where do they find out more about you, Luke? So all my stuff is really through Instagram.

So it's uh Ridge WWE. I've not a chance to change my handle yet. So it's Ridge Ri WWE. Um and for coaching, I work for a company called Silverback by Alli Gilbert. >> Oh, I know. I know.

I've been to some of her seminars. Yeah. >> Yeah. So I'm in close quarters with Ali's me, Jim Ferris, and a guy called Anthony Blue Bellow. We're the coaches for Silverback. So yeah, um if you're interested in coaching, um hit us up at Silverback and we'll we'll we'll help you out. >> Perfect.

Perfect. Um anything else you'd like to add, Luke? >> Uh no, it's just it's good to to reconnect with you, Miles. It's obviously you were always uh kind of like a a wealth of knowledge yourself when I was a young kid, you know, training MP fit and I'd always train I'd always train on my own. I think you probably noticed that. I never really had training partners and you were always there to, you know, and you've had your share of injuries too as well, you know, with your Achilles and things like that.

I remember and and >> Yeah. Yeah. I've done I've done the shoulders, the hips, the Achilles. I've doneve I think me and you were when when you're about my age, you'll caught up to me with injuries. >> Yeah. I think what was that?

I said the other day, I feel like I've donated my body to medical science. And I think you feel the same way. >> I've got two I've got two titanium shoulders now. So, it's it's just I keep I keep just stacking up these injuries. Keep stacking them up. >> Have to start calling you the M62, mate, because you >> know, it's awesome, mate, for connecting again, mate. And hopefully when I'm back in the UK, I can come and we can get a coffee or whatever and what have you. >> I look forward to it, mate.

And get a session in. So, like I said, everybody go and follow Luke. He's he's a gentleman and he's extremely knowledgeable. So, you know, go follow Luke and thanks for coming on, Luke, today. Yeah.

Cheers, Miles. It's been a pleasure.